Quest, Instance and Class notes

Warriors- Gods or Pinata's - discuss

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Recently I have seen a lot of talk on the WOW Warrior forums, various guild sites and from listening on vent about what Blizz is doing to warriors.

Many complaints are about our scalability and dependancy on gear. Others are about the Rage Normalization changes. Some complain we didnt get any fancy or new abilities for BC. I am anxious to hear your ideas, complaints, general opinions on the matter.

Let me give an example of about 2 hours of vent earlier this week. Some of our guildies and friends were in vent and they were teamed up for some AB/WSG action. I love listening to vent because you can get such a wide variety of reaction. I have played with most of these guys and AB/WSG and I have to admit as a team they are damn good. The most discussed topic is warriors. First you will hear something like, man I smoked than warrior (mage, Lock) in like 6 seconds. Then a few minutes later you will hear, "somebody get this damn warrior off me". Its is definately a 2 edged sword (pardon the pun). You do hear a lot of talk about pally's and rogues, but hands down the most feared character has to be a well geared warrior, with skill and some healing running amok. I see and hear this and I wonder why so many warriors think they are the most useless class. Sure we get the nerf bat in some way every patch, and sure we didnt get any real BC goodies till lvl 64 (Spell reflect =pownage). But hey, we are the real men of WOW. The meatshields of the dungeon. Sure we need support characters. And we should take every opportunity to tell our healers we appreciate thier leet skills. But in the end we are the brutes who take it to the enemy... Discuss..


PS, who was the dumfuck nerd at blizzard who came up with the concept Rage normalization?
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If you want to be a killing machine, you have to have a supporting class with you. 1v2 when you are fury or arms you are smoked by anyone with more than 2 brain cells. There are rare occasions when you get lucky and can take on a group and come out pretty well. But if that group can do anything to affect your mobility its best to just site there and let them 4 shot you, god knows 5k of health goes fast as fury.

Protection is still the most balanced pvp build out there imo. You can still do a good amount of damange, nothing compared to fury or arms. But your dps is good enough. And the bonus is you can pretty much last forever against most enemies. The main thing I would love to see them do to protection is make it more valuable as a pvp build. Shield slam should be a magic attack, we should have a sprint in protection, cool down decrease for our fear, and improved hamstring should be in prot. Basically I think if they made protection tree the snaring tree of our class.

I have not tried Arms yet in a while, I just never liked it I suppose. Although mortal strike has to be still the best talent out there for dps.
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As a rogue I hate second wind so much, at least they're making it not regen health while you're gouged.
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yeah, I am finding a hardcore protection build the best with good gear.

I have been able to hold back 4-5 people at a flag long enough for help to arrive. And enough cannot be said about concussion blow against pallys and casters. too bad we cant train in it to make it last longer or faster recoup time.
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Yeah, it is a bit of a mixed bag... though it seems like most people vote warriors as worst pvp class...

Personally, I never really liked the fact that we're so dependant on support... it just seems like the group would be better off with something less dependant on heals, and the healers doing damage. I mean hell, not like they can't do damage either... /glare shadow priests

I think some of the problems stem from our lack of new game defining abilities... many specs for classes got some new defining ability that gives the tree new life. Fire mages can kick my ass so hard with proper use of dragon's breath it's humiliating. Warlocks... nevermind, not going there. Shamans get to dual wield... though heard mixed feelings from it.
Hell, even paladins got what they wanted, they can actually dps now.
We just got a nerf-reverser, an attack power boost, and another button to spam while tanking... though a a few good lead up talents as well...
Granted, Rampage is probably pretty damn great for DPS, but never really had the chance to try it... it's difficult to use in PvP because of the rage cost, and the fact that it triggers global cooldown... and you'll probably fail to generate all the charges anyway... or die long before you get any use out of it...

I'm surprised though. Blizzard actually stealth buffed us in 2.0.3... Slam doesn't get interrupted by damage anymore... making it somewhat useful for the first time since release...
20 rage rampage is a plus too
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Precision and Weapon Mastery do not work. Both are currently a waste of talent points. Don't believe me, if you have precision, get naked and notice that your +hit is at zero. As for weapon mastery, get disarmed by another warrior or rogue. Currently Tseric says that a fix won't be in until after the expansion.


Two problems (not going to go nuts) with the PvP issue.

One is rage generation. It needs a touch more tweeking, especially for 2H. It's a failure as it stands now, not to mention that rage generation from damage taken has been reduced also, that also needs a tweek.

Second is the whole CC deal. Other classes can pump out soo much damned DPS that as you well know, you are dead before any of it wears off. That is plain bullshit. The CC abilities were to help the squishies however their damage output is so high that it really doesn't matter. Armor of course is not an issue for any classes other than rogues, hunters, and other warriors so the changes that involve damage mitigation to help warriors is moot. I agree with Kwa, why heal us when the healer type is better off healing himself and some other class.


As for PvE; if what they are saying about the expansion is true and Druids make a more solid tank than a warrior then the warrior as a class is dead in my opinion. That remains to be seen though because there are so few Protection warriors who can actually give solid feedback.

All in all I don't think we have serious viability in PvP. Anytime we charge in we are focused fired on, not because we are dangerous but because we are an easy HK.

I kinda feel for the Devs in all this. We're kind of like a broken volume knob. If we're barely touched one direction you can't hear anything and if touched in the opposite direction the windows blow out.
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I will admit killing hunters, rogues and non prot warriors seems fairly easy. I really feel for rogues and hunters who only hit me for 80-150 and miss more than they like to. 10k armor is nothing to laugh at. Of course armor means jack against spells, but I have noticed I can outlive many dots (the benefits of vitality and T2/2.5 gear) unless I get 2-3 casters dinging me.

As far surviveability, I dont get many kills in BG's but I do some damage. I can also hold an area for quite some time. Long enough for the cavalry to arrive. I just wish u could spec more into arms with protection as impale and poleaxe specialization would be nice
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Enjoy!

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o87/Drekor/massivedpsfs4.jpg


Notice the Paladin Buffs.
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did BC make a change in the hp from stamina calculation for warriors?
I am sure he had some buffs, but he had 9129 health on 443 stamina.
I currently have 510+ stamina unbuffed and have only 7079 hp.

And that attack power and speed, OMG...
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...


:shock:


Also, notice the rage bar. Rage normalization, I laugh at you.


It's true... one way to buff a warrior, is to buff his gear. Looks like that's coming true in TBC.
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1v1 with a mage today. It was the fastest fight I have ever had in the game. I got lucky.

Charge
Hamstring, 54 dmg + AutoAttack Swing 1123 (crit)
Mortal Strike 1517 (crit)
Execute 998 (crit)

All of this happened in about 3 seconds max. It was beautiful! The part where the execute button lit up was almost in slow motion. I couldn't believe it. I also realize the guy was slow on the blink but I know most mages like to wait for the intercept before they do. The poor bastard got off a frost nova a half a second befor I executed him.

Anyhow, I had to share.
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hah,quicker than mine...

charge
thunderclap, 166 damage (full slowing affect)
white hit 401 (laugh all u want)
shield bash 45 (oops he is silenced)
heroic strike 710 (okay a little better)
white crit 621 (I see your still laughing)
defensive stance
** dragons breath (denied, resisted) wtf??
Shield slam 885 (say good bye to AI)
bloodrage
**pyroblast 435 (now I am laughing)
shield bash 101 (say something now sucka)
shield slam 901 (what's this no ice shield)
battle stance
Frost nova (oh noes i am trapped)
thunderclap 166
pyroblast 447 (zing)
cone of cold 385 ()
execute

then a warlock starts dotting me...
sigh!
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Don't get me started on warlock dots, I was in the range of a warlock for maybe 2 seconds on my mount. He got two dots on me pretty much instantly, i was at full health, pvp gear, so about 5k health. I died as all my timers were still up and no healers in site.

Warlocks are insane dps with almost no effort. I don't mind being melee, but some of the ranged dps seems to be out of wack currently. A warrior simply cannot out dps someone every in any cituation in pvp.

Stuns, If I charge a main group with no healers I am dead in about 3 seconds, I usually end up with about 50 dots on me all at once, and then they ignore me.

One on One I have had mages hit me for 4k damage, warlocks pretty much one shot me, rogues decked out in T3 gear and weapons stun lock me and kill me so fast I felt like a clothy.

So we are left being second rate melee dps, hunters and rogues trump us all around if smart. Plain and simple protection is the best tree out there, but don't expect to do much damage in pvp.

Arms by far is best for pvp so far in my opinion. Fury will still be a great dps pve build, but many of its plus are meant for long term fights. And before you can buff yourself to get maximum dps in pvp you either dead or the person you are hitting is dead.

So arms it is for me until xPac, then protection all the way.
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Oss wrote:

Interesting comparison of his health, General Drakkisath has ~81,000 health. Blackheart the Inciter has 135,567 so with an extra 10 levels and a buff to player damage the mob health increases to 167.37% of previous levels.

I really hope that the trash gets a big buff, I HATE going through current instances and everything dying in 10 seconds, especially for warlocks and shadow priests things dying that fast is hugely inefficient and means you can't use class features well.

Edit: diaf Tiq :P Fixed.


Last edited by Melis on Tue Jan 02, 2007 8:25 pm; edited 2 times in total
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